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Ner's Random Musings on a life of interesting insights

a world of interesting factoids about nothing and everything


April 8th, 2004

IF we could get through these questions reasonably quickly ... @ 09:41 am

There's one advantage about watching a historical event. Its on every channel, every satellite network, and maybe about four channels even on XM. This is going to be short because I want to listen to these people on the commission interview Dr. Rice. One thing I notice about Bush supporters especially in the cabinet is that they tend not to have the ability to shut up. Rice especially. She's being made for one of the first times, to, in a few words, shut up. Oh great, she's now asking questions of the person that's asked her a question. I've never listened to a commission before, never watched a trial in front of Congress. But this must be a real big thing for on certain issues, the people in the audience including audience members applaud questions. I'm sure the talk networks will have real fun analyzing what's going on, and I don't think that we SHOULD overanalyze. Overanalyzing won't roll back the clocks or bring back the lives of the 3000 people who died in the World Trade Center and the our airlines. Knowing what the goernment did or did not do though, is important for the country's process of healing, and most importantly for the family's process of healing and grieving. When Clark appologized for what he thought he did not do and what he thought the country did not do, I think it was an act that was a very nice, almost heroic, gesture. Glossing over the issue will not help us as a country heal. Healing, unless its done right, could take generations.
 
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From:mel_nic
Date:April 8th, 2004 07:44 am (UTC)
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I totally agree with you. Well said.
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From:rmahorney
Date:April 8th, 2004 04:27 pm (UTC)

Dr. Rice

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Remember here folks these folks called her to answer questions which is what she did. If they were serious about finding answers they'd listen to her answers and not try to politicize administration polacy pre 911. Clarke lied in his book and the members of this comission know this but this is an election year and politics seems to be the name of the game. The only thing this comission seems to be concerned about is this PDB and it should be noted that a PDB is never! declassed. A question which should be asked but likely won't be is where were these Guys when the Cole was attacked? Clearly an act of War.... When the US embacies in Kenya and Tanzania were attacked? Clearly acts of war.... Finally, the point to remember here is that despite all the information sharing the democrats and the left claim they want there was no silver bullet which would have stopped 9/11 The fault rests not just with the current administration but with the 2 previous administrations as well so you folks who want to appese those whose interests are so clearly hostile to our own need to be asking yourselves the following question: Would you rather fight against the terrorists over here? Or, Over there? The answer; after your emotional knee jerk reaction, should be a no brainer.
Ray T. Mahorney
WA4WGA
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From:djner
Date:April 8th, 2004 08:24 pm (UTC)

Re: Dr. Rice

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Depending on how you think politically, ou'll look at things differently YOu read different media articles, you believe different things, and I definitely understand this. However, it hasn't been proven that Clark lied in his book notwithstanding the article you posted in your journal. Even Dr. Rice, who was asked that question during her testimony, said that she did not think that he lied, just that they look at the facts in a different way. Karen Hughes said the same thing, he skewed the facts to how he believed. And that, my friend, is how everyone believes things. They skew them depending on what they believe. What I believe is not due mostl to the election year or that I am a democrat, its just what I believe. I am sure that it is the same for you. I just think its wonderful that here in America we areallowed to have these differing views, and we're allowed to skew things. Democrat or Republican, we must all be happy about that right?
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From:lucid42day
Date:April 8th, 2004 08:25 pm (UTC)

Re: Dr. Rice

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You're right, nobody should politicize political decisions of current or previous administrations. I'd also like to fight the terrorists here, and the terrorists there. No sense in doing anything half-assed. Maybe there's a way to do it without giving every Christian fundamentalist in the country a hard-on.

Would 'knowing about it beforehand' qualify as your silver bullet to prevent the September 11 attacks?

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From:djner
Date:April 8th, 2004 09:02 pm (UTC)

Re: Dr. Rice

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I don't know if we have a "silver bullet" but I think there were many oportunities that this government had to change some policies before something like this happened. I'm not saying Clinton would not have done the same thing, saying the same things, but as Rice says, there were "structural problems" in the administration that didn't help the passing of such "silver bullets" and information about terror threats. Also Ray, ow do we know that we're fighting Iraq to eliminate more terrorists from the world? Whose not to say taht more terrorists won't pp up somewhere else in the world? Iran? Syria? If Bush wins this year, I wonder "where to next" for the war on terror. I think it'd be best to concentrate on sealing our borders and securing our country rather than changing regimes elsewhere in the world that may or may not give the terrorists less of a haven other places.

Don't get offended, I love good spirited debate :). And, I love being wrong too so tell me how i am wrong. I may not agree but I do like to listen to other's views.
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From:lucid42day
Date:April 10th, 2004 12:02 am (UTC)

Re: Dr. Rice

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Most of the structural problems, as I see them, still exist. My main problem isn't really with Bush, per se, but the people who followed him in.

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From:rmahorney
Date:April 8th, 2004 09:17 pm (UTC)

Re: Dr. Rice

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Your comment presupposes we had the intel assets in place to have learned of the plot with enough time to roll up the organization and keep this plan from reaching its conclusion which was not the case at all. Over the last few years, the Intel communities have relied too heavily on elint and siggint intercepts as methods of data collection and in this case, this over reliance on elint and siggint left us unprepared for the events of September 11. We were warned by the Mosaad prior to the attacks but the warning lacked specifics and spoke mainly in general terms and for us to act on the bases of generalities would have given the appearence of alarmism so, it was therefore not possible for us to act on a report for which we had no substantive or corroborative evidence. Let me remind you that the purpose of waging a war is to win and to do it decisively! and you don't do that by letting the Opp-For gain any ground in your teritory or against your assets.
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From:lucid42day
Date:April 10th, 2004 12:00 am (UTC)

Re: Dr. Rice

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Nah. I just asked a question. We were warned by the FBI and CIA as well, if I recall correctly. Problem was, the right people were preoccupied with finding a reason to invade Iraq.

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From:rmahorney
Date:April 10th, 2004 12:41 am (UTC)

Re: Dr. Rice

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We actually had a directive in place from about 1998 to pop Sadaam so the claim that the "right people" were looking for a reason to go into Iraq loses credibility in light of this fact. Aditionally neither the FBI nor the CIA could have issued any kind of warnings because of constraints against information sharing imposed through the simple expeediant of changing the manner with which OBL was dealt with from one of national security to one of law enforcement. By arguing that OBL had not violated any US laws it was easy to claim that there was no legal case for his aprehention. Further there was no way for the CIA to issue any kind of warning because it had no means of Intelligents gathering other than ellint and signals intercepts and the organization made very little use of electronics infrastructure to conduct their C&C comms. In short, there was no practical way given the limitations imposed both by the previous administration and by previous congressional actions on the security and intelligents apperatus to prevent what happened.
Ray T. Mahorney
WA4WGA

Ner's Random Musings on a life of interesting insights

a world of interesting factoids about nothing and everything