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Ner's Random Musings on a life of interesting insights

a world of interesting factoids about nothing and everything


January 21st, 2008

the Democratic debate, Clinton vs. Obama: Throw down @ 10:11 pm

Current Mood: aggravated aggravated

I just watched the Democratic debate on CNN, and all I can say now is that for at least the first half of the debate--I have to be fair, I only watched all of that and parts of the second half--I was disgusted. I was disgusted because there were many parts of the first half that lacked substance, but only consisted of argument. I was disgusted because both Clinton and Obama attacked each other at every opportunity, and didn't discuss the real issues. They didn't discuss their views on real issues that will effect the everyday American, but found it important that they jab at each other. I've not been a fan of Hilary Clinton for President for a while, and I wasn't sure of the reason for my dislike. Obama is not perfect, neither is Edwards, but I was apalled at how virulent some of Clintons accusations were towards mostly Obama. When attacked, Obama had no choice but to defend himself. Again, Obama is not perfect, and he was a pervayor of other petty arguments, but perhaps because I'm not a (Hilary) Clinton fan, whenever she would speak, and throw stones, I would seethe. Did she throw the stone? I don't know. But does that really matter? Not at all.

Why can't candidates concentrate on the issues? Is it really that important who Obama or Clinton worked for as clients? Was it really productive to spend 45 minutes arguing back and forth and not debating.

I still am not completely sure who I will vote for on Super Tuesday, but I know that one thing is for sure, and that thing is that Clinton wrote several black marks in my book in her column. It's a disgrace that in American politics, you must win by being negative. It's disgraceful that, to win, the candidates must sling million dollar mud at each other, trying to prove to an American undecided who is less flaws. Let's debate issues! There are differences between the three candidates on their platforms. And most of all, next time, I hope I can watch a debate, not an argument.
 
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From:amazingstar
Date:January 22nd, 2008 05:32 am (UTC)
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Agreed...That's partly why I gave up watching those darned debates.
I, too, am not a fan of Mrs. Clinton...
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From:djner
Date:January 25th, 2008 02:40 pm (UTC)
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I'm so glad to see you on the comment list. It's been forever since we've chatted.

Thanks for the comment. I just watch the debates so that I can get to know what the candidates positions are. When they argue all the time, I don't get that opportunity. Hopefully they will improve.
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From:sunnyblue
Date:January 22nd, 2008 06:06 am (UTC)
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I haven't seen where any of the candidates, Democrat or Republican, debate any real issues. THey have a 10 second soundbite that states their vague position and then the rest is negative retarded babble. Such is the state of American politics.

However, I do plan to vote for Hillary in the primary. If she doesn't get the nomination, then of course in November I will vote for whoever the selected Democrat is. If John McCain happens to be the Republican nominee, I could be OK with that.
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From:djner
Date:January 25th, 2008 02:42 pm (UTC)
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That's why I watch the debates, so that I can try to understand their positions. Glad you know who you'll vote for, I'm envious that you know. We shall see what happens.
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From:lilmissmagic71
Date:January 22nd, 2008 06:39 am (UTC)
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hear hear! I hate the mudslinging that goes on in elections... in every level of politics you hear negativity and no substance! Arghh!
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From:djner
Date:January 25th, 2008 02:44 pm (UTC)
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and it's especially bad this election. Suppose that just shows how polarized this country is, and how polarized people are even within their own parties.
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From:ladyozma
Date:January 22nd, 2008 05:25 pm (UTC)

Bravo!!!!

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Excellent job calling politicians out!

Seems like everything is just negative negative negative. YUCK. It is just varrying degrees of negativity. Some are not as negative as others, but it is always negativity. I'm sick of it.

I am not a fan of the Clintons. Seems things took a huge nosedive under their regime. Not wanting them back again. Especially because I don't like the roundabout I can't believe it is legal ways... UGH. So at least i have that decision easy.

I'm just sick of the nastiness. You know what? I don't give a frick what you did 30 years ago. I want to hear about today and your issues. That is what matters most.

All I can think of is that addage about when you point a finger there's three more pointing back at you.

I hate both parties, I think they are equally to blame for the destruction of our nation as well as the political field. At some point I need to decide which evil I plan to "claim" for the primary since I have that forced upon me.
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From:djner
Date:January 25th, 2008 02:47 pm (UTC)

Re: Bravo!!!!

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I differ with you on the Clinton issue ... I thought that he was a good political president. I didn't agree with his personal life issues, but I think that there are many other politicians in history that have done worse things. At this point, I just don't like his wife. She'll have to improve her demeanor quite a bit for me to feel comfortable to vote for her. We shall see. Thanks for the comment.
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From:ladyozma
Date:January 25th, 2008 03:14 pm (UTC)

Re: Bravo!!!!

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I hated his politics. Though he did do a great thing and gave women longer in the hospital after having a baby and told insurance companies they could stuff it. yay. But OMG, his politics sucked. Mostly I dislike his politics. The fact that he was a seedy idiot who couldn't fess up when his hand was caught in the cookie jar was icing on the cake. Seriously, you got caught, fess up. especially over the moronic stuff that shouldn't have any bearing to your candidacy. "I didn't inhale?" Come on. I would have been happy with a "Yeah it was a bonehead mistake. Everyone was doing it and I thought that made it right." I mean unless you're toking up now, who cares. I understand that historically that was common. Then when you're caught boffing hte interns, just fess up. It is gonna come out one way or the other.

But his treatment of the military, his allowing the nation to be attacked time and time again without doing anything, his turn from promoting the national product, the bad ideas for medical insurance, his inflating the economy in ways that were never going to last figuring "The next guy will have to deal with it"... these things really get to me. Not to mention just the flat out negativity.

And I know how much of that presidency was Hillary inspired... it just burns me. And then this roundabout way they are getting her into the white house? I don't care if they did buy a house in NYC while Billy was president. She never resided in it enough to count IMHO. I'm sorry but the point of these elected leaders is they are supposed to put their personal (HA) politics aside and they are to represent their constiuency. They are supposed to make decisions based on what they feel those that put them in office would want. I live in VA and thinking tobacco is vile and evil. However, I recognize we have tobacco farms here. I probably don't want to go making cigarettes completely illegal, as much as I'd personally love to see it happen. (Taxing the crap out of them... that's debatable.) How is she supposed to know what her constituents want if she's not lived among them in the last... oh... twenty years or so? But, politically speaking? Perfect area to come from to springboard you to the White House. I also don't know how i feel about the fact that this seems a good way to get around the 2 term rule. We made that a law for a reason. It wasn't always the law, but it became the law, and for a good reason. Sure, the person assigned to sit at the desk is a different human being, but we all know that Bill and Hillary... they worked very much together in everything and so to me... it just seems a little... yeah. But then again, I don't like the political FAMILIES we've formed like the Kennedy's and etc. I don't like this getting in on family name deal. So if I'm iffy on parents to kids... you know I"m really iffy on this husband/wife thing.

And I keep coming back around to that which I have the most experience with. We're in a war effort. The terrorists got pretty gutsy after 8 years of a president making us militarily weak. What is going to happen if she gets in? Neither of those two have any respect for the armed services. What's going to happen to the military? Will we once more bleed our best and our brightest to the corporate side and see a hack and slash to the retirement of our troops that are veterans of a war? I don't care what your stand is on the war... the fact is we're at war and we need to take care of those fighting in it. To do otherwise would be more wrong than people consider the war. Can we afford to lose our best and our brightest at a time like this?

We may be at war, but at least in the last 8 years, the military has gotten a lot of things that they so rightly deserve. Deserved that no one else would give them.

All I know is, I'm thankful that my husband was one of those that fled the Clinton Admin's military. Because the inevitable strike we all saw coming happened and my husband didn't have to go off to war. Because we didn't have to deal with the loss of benefits. We'd be at 16 years now. Only four years from retirement and with the chance of Hillary getting in to destroy things once more? Yeah...
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From:djner
Date:January 25th, 2008 03:33 pm (UTC)

Re: Bravo!!!!

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I can't go into as much detail as you did in your response to me but ...

What is it that you like about the Bush administration's policies. I'm not trying to turn the topic away from the Clinton issue, I'm just curious.

I have as much issue with Bush as you probab ly have with Clinton. We are now in a war in Iraq that I'm not sure we should have started, and there's no end to the madness. There is terrorism there, and there was terrorism in Afghanistan, but I believe we have created, with us being there, more terrorism and terrorists. We got rid of Saddam, but what next? Do we keep searching for weapons of mass destruction that aren't there? Do we try to hold the status quo in Iraq, and hold it, and hold it, all while providing a new home for terrorists. I'm not sure what the answer is, I'm not sure that we can leave now right away. We got ourselves into this thing, unfortunately, I'm just not sure how we're going to end it because terrorism will most likely never end.

I know, my views are those of the liberals, but tDemocrat or Republican, I just haven't been a supporter of the war.

Bush has lowered taxes but increased expenses, exploding our national deficit.

And that's all I can think of now. I'm sure I'll write more about it at some point. I'm just glad we live in a country where we can criticize and discuss like we can.
P.S. I've moderated a lot in the past few years. Amazing isn't it?
P.P.S. No politician is perfect, Clinton wasn't perfect, I'll give you that.
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From:ladyozma
Date:January 25th, 2008 05:11 pm (UTC)

Re: Bravo!!!!

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OK, so I tried to comment. And was told this:
Sorry, but your comment of 8996 characters exceeds the maximum character length of 4300. Please go back, shorten it, and try posting it again.


Prolific much? HAHA

now I'm not sure what to do.

How about this with no real explanations because I need to get dressed and stuff.

1. 9-11. He struck back. Didn't take it
2. Military care: he's hooked them up with pay and new housing. He's stopped slashing benefits. We may be at war but it's a better time to be military.
3. Iraq. Needed to go. Saddam=bad. Reasons given? Moronic. But... needed to happen. Would have eventually.
4. Education: He brought it up. he had good ideas. States have implemented poorly. That is unfortunately for him since he's been blamed - not his fault. Maybe he could have written it up better, I dunno. But some states are doing better than other states in this.
5. Social Security: once more, brought it up. Broke system that needs fixing. At least he's willing to think outside the box. Not sure if his ideas are good, but they are better than anyone else's... mostly cause no one else seems willing to pony up other ideas.

Presidential politics is more about the ideas since they can't do much more than that.

that's all I have time for... it's crap, not as well done as my 9k character comment... but anyway my mother is here and I gotta go because my day just got a whole lot brighter - free lunch. HA!

I will leave you with this. War sucks. But it's nothing new to the political scheme. Things are better in Iraq than they used to be. And we can bring our troops home from there, but how about we bring them home from Korea. When was that war? Or how about Germany and Japan... it's been over 60 years now... Hmmm America never pulls out once we've moved in.
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From:djner
Date:January 25th, 2008 05:30 pm (UTC)

Re: Bravo!!!!

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I've never gotten that error before. Yes, you're definitely prolific. Keep that comment and post i in your journal. NO sense in wasting all that work.

I understand what you're saying, and I won't argue wtih you on it because we'll be able to agree on some things, but not all. I just enjoy discussion.

Korea? Japan? Germany? We never leave these places, but at this point, troops aren't getting killed in these locatons. That's why Americans, and myself, are unhappy about being there.

Have a good time with free lunch. I'm looking forward to reading idol entries. Haven' gotten much feedback on my entry yet, but it's early yet.
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From:ladyozma
Date:January 26th, 2008 12:30 am (UTC)

Re: Bravo!!!!

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I got that error once before. HAHA Mostly I was explaining the points and giving much better examples. Oh well.

I'm good with discussion. It's all good. :)

While you are sort of right on the not getting killed, they are getting royally shafted in those countries and that's a big suckage. And they are not treated well. :( As for the war situation, no one complained when our troops were being killed in the 90s. It was awful seeing those that were suddenly widowed being kicked out of base housing and then realizing we weren't going to do a dang thing about the fact they'd just lost their husband. Baaaaah. I just hate war in general. It all sucks.

I haven't read your entry yet... or did I? It probably showed up on my friends page so maybe I did. I have a hard time reading the entries before posting my own. So I tend to not to. Then I forget which ones showed up that I went ahead and read on my friends page. I'm a total loser about that... ;) Hopefully the entries will be awesome. BTW Check out Caliban's even though he got immunity. It is the Roxers. Really good one and really got you into his head. He still plays soccer and I feel like I definitely understand that a lot more.
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From:djner
Date:January 26th, 2008 01:32 am (UTC)

Re: Bravo!!!!

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I read all of tribe 2's, and started on 1. I haven't read your entry yet. Mine was about an annoying situation with a parking Nazi--I mean attendant. I'm surprised at how few comments I've gotten for the votes I've been getting (not great vote count but ok). As the competition has gone on, commenting has become less. It's a fun thing to do though and I've found some neat friends through it.
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From:ladyozma
Date:January 26th, 2008 01:40 am (UTC)

Re: Bravo!!!!

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Hmm, unfortunately for me, I had a great occurance today I could have used. Apparently I pissed off the CIA. Or at least some schmuck at the chinese buffet that decided to LOUDLY inform me (IE the patronage) he was in the CIA and exceedingly well paid. Discretion much? Loser.

I don't remember yours. I must have noticed it was an idol entry and quickly looked away! I'll get to it. Sounds pretty interesting at any rate.

I've only read a few.
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From:djner
Date:January 26th, 2008 01:34 pm (UTC)

Re: Bravo!!!!

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That would have been a good story that you could have embellished. But in life, you could have done a lot of things.
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From:ladyozma
Date:January 26th, 2008 06:46 pm (UTC)

Re: Bravo!!!!

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Oh gosh the whole thing doesn't even need embellishing. It was so ridiculous. Caused us much amusement. Tomorrow when I see my contact in aforementioned organization I'll be mentioning it to him. He'll make sure to scrub my record clean from that dorkage. HEHE


Ner's Random Musings on a life of interesting insights

a world of interesting factoids about nothing and everything