Ner (djner) wrote,
Ner
djner

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web crappiness a must read for you people people you'll hopefully be able to grab my drift

I've just been talking to the very amazingly cool web guy for the acb web site I've been helping with. I'll paste in the conversation then put in my views, a more positive entry will be forthcoming while I do my show :). I must calm down, really, its not worth it.


Jeff and UltraHost.US provides customer care extraordinaire! says:
Hi Ner, are you running into trouble with that script?
ner says:
No, running in to trouble only in time issues.
ner says:
The script it self will be easy but the issue is I'm having to deal with planning for next semester, I would strongly thing it should be done by tonight (will work on it during my show)
Jeff and UltraHost.US provides customer care extraordinaire! says:
Well, since you've not begun working on it, nevermind. I understand other tasks may need to take priority. I'll whip something out since I've got a bit of time and I want to get it done.
ner says:
Can I suggest I look over finished script and add things that come to mind i.e. combo boxes etc. + additional options of view on this page and otehrs?
Jeff and UltraHost.US provides customer care extraordinaire! says:
You may certainly look over the scripts and make suggestions on enhancements, but I do not want you making changes without my prior knowledge and permission.
ner says:
How about if I modify the scripts and provide different versions of the scripts. One of the reasons why I've been somewhat non forthcoming with my ideas about this project is because you have been very opinionated and non moving on some issues, telling me that I can suggest but "I do not want you making changes without my prior knowledge and permission." does not make me want to help you at all.
ner says:
If you want it done one way then you do it and don't ask me to even help if you're going to have that kind of attitude, that's all I'm saying about it. I am trying to be helpful and being dictatorial about the web site will not get many to work with you.
Jeff and UltraHost.US provides customer care extraordinaire! says:
Ner, there is a reason why a webmaster was appointed. My job is to organize the development of the web site. Before we had a coordinator, one of us would make changes to a file then another of us would use a local copy and make other changes then overwrite the changes made by the first person.
Jeff and UltraHost.US provides customer care extraordinaire! says:
For this reason, I assign files to individuals and give them complete control over those files. I'm sorry your time is limited, but if you haven't the time to work on a file then I cannot assign any files to you.
Jeff and UltraHost.US provides customer care extraordinaire! says:
If another person develops a script, I'm not going to allow you to simply come in and arbitrarily make changes to that person's file. I would hope you can understand the reasoning behind this.
Jeff and UltraHost.US provides customer care extraordinaire! says:
As far as my being opinionated, I have my opinions and surely you don't hold that against me. You have your opinions and that is fine with me. I even appreciate hearing your opinions and discussing them with you.
ner says:
Being opinionated is very important in life. If you're not opinionated, you'll never get anywhere. However, if you've got somebody working for you, and you continue to tell them their opinionated in certain patronizing ways, people will cease to want to volunteer for you.
ner says:
I appreciate hearing your opinions as well for sure, but I'm losing time adn in effect patients with the whole thing. As I told Dave just now, I know this scheduling system is the way to go, but when you have low moralle, you lose the drive to work or help out
ner says:
You have to value your volunteers or you will lose them
Jeff and UltraHost.US provides customer care extraordinaire! says:
I do value all of the volunteers on the project. I'm a volunteer too you know. I'm sorry you feel unappreciated. I do not intend to give you that impression. However, we are a team and we must work as a team. Surely you cannot expect to come in here and just take over autonomously.
Jeff and UltraHost.US provides customer care extraordinaire! says:
As a team, we must share our thoughts and opinions and discuss them. Holding your opinions to yourself does no one any good, including yourself.
Jeff and UltraHost.US provides customer care extraordinaire! says:
As an example, if you've followed the thread, Dave and I have disagreed about who should enter the DJ records. We have carried on a civilized discussion about this issue and I think have worked out a solution which satisfies all concerned.
ner says:
As I have done, and I did not think that I could take over autonomously at all, that's not my goal in life. I strive to work together with people at least try.
Jeff and UltraHost.US provides customer care extraordinaire! says:
Well, if you don't feel you are entitled to take over then why would you suggest taking someone else's file and modifying it without first discussing it with them and the other team members?
ner says:
There are many different personalities that we as humans must be able to deal with, and I know that I may deal with things in a layed back manner, but I do hope to be treated with respect (which you do). As webmaster, you have to be an authoritarian, but there is a limit.
ner says:
And, on your last comment, what I was suggesting doing is taking the file, modifying it, placing a new file on the server, then asking what you thought.
ner says:
YOu think I'd actually just modify a file and leave my modified version on the server, you're crazy man!
Jeff and UltraHost.US provides customer care extraordinaire! says:
And reading between the lines, you feel I have crossed that limit. Well, even in this, I am open to suggestions and feedback. How would you have me manage this project differently?

ner says:
As I have done, and I did not think that I could take over autonomously at all, that's not my goal in life. I strive to work together with people at least try.
Jeff and UltraHost.US provides customer care extraordinaire! says:
Well, if you don't feel you are entitled to take over then why would you suggest taking someone else's file and modifying it without first discussing it with them and the other team members?
ner says:
There are many different personalities that we as humans must be able to deal with, and I know that I may deal with things in a layed back manner, but I do hope to be treated with respect (which you do). As webmaster, you have to be an authoritarian, but there is a limit.
ner says:
And, on your last comment, what I was suggesting doing is taking the file, modifying it, placing a new file on the server, then asking what you thought.
ner says:
YOu think I'd actually just modify a file and leave my modified version on the server, you're crazy man!
Jeff and UltraHost.US provides customer care extraordinaire! says:
And reading between the lines, you feel I have crossed that limit. Well, even in this, I am open to suggestions and feedback. How would you have me manage this project differently?
Jeff and UltraHost.US provides customer care extraordinaire! says:
Well, you did not make that clear at first. Nevertheless, why go to that work if the decision is not to do it that way? I guess I have no problem with your modifying a separate copy of the file and uploading it with a different name. But it would be my suggestion that you first bring up your ideas so you don't go to unnecessary effort.
Jeff and UltraHost.US provides customer care extraordinaire! says:
Notice that this emphasizes the need for discussion. I misunderstood your statement about modifying files. Typing these abbreviated messages prompts us to be brief sometimes and our real meaning doesn't always come through. That is why it's important to discuss the issues rather than simply lose motivation.
ner says:
If I were telling you what to do with this project I'd say that being nicer to people and saying things in a less authoritarian way and more "we should work together" attitude would be the first thing. "tell me if you've changed the password" you say. I say, "no, why would I do that." you say, "YOu're not answering the question." saying that "that's ok, just make sure you don't give the
ner says:
password to others." It's all about working with others, and making them feel like you actually like to work with them etc. When for instance, you were talking to me, j, chris, etc. on the phone you were very courteous on the phone and that I felt comfortable with.
ner says:
Our msn conversations and emils however I have felt very different.
Jeff and UltraHost.US provides customer care extraordinaire! says:
I did not ask if you changed the pw. I asked if you gave it to Chris. It's a reasonable question considering you were wanting to bring him into the project and had already discussed it with him before bringing it up with us.
Jeff and UltraHost.US provides customer care extraordinaire! says:
I did take your word that you have not given it to him. That matter is closed as far as I'm concerned.
Jeff and UltraHost.US provides customer care extraordinaire! says:
Regarding the phone call, I'm open to phone calls anytime between noon and midnight Pacific time. If you feel more comfortable discussing things on the phone then that is fine with me.
ner says:
Actually, you are incorrect. I discussed it with dave, mentioned it to Chris, then Dave talked to you.
Jeff and UltraHost.US provides customer care extraordinaire! says:
Well, all I know is that by the time the two of you confronted me with Chris's involvement, Chris had already been consulted. That was my issue with the way events transpired.
ner says:
I know you don't talk the way you write, but if you were a little less business like with me, because this is not a business, I'm not someone who works for you, I treat you as an equal, it'd be much easier to work with you.
ner says:
Dave's the director of acb radio, but his messages are written in a way that he almost talks to everyone as he's their friend, this puts me at ease and a lot of others.
ner says:
If this is how you write, then that's fine, but that's another reason why I have had issues.
Jeff and UltraHost.US provides customer care extraordinaire! says:
Ok, I'll accept that constructive criticism. I'll be the first to admit that I'm a fairly formal and precise person. Logic is comfortable for me and I'm sure that's why I went into programming. I like the fact that computers do not have feelings.
Jeff and UltraHost.US provides customer care extraordinaire! says:
However, I will make a strong effort to be more personable and if you feel that I'm not then I'll accept your comments and try to improve. That does not mean I'll change my mind, though.
Jeff and UltraHost.US provides customer care extraordinaire! says:
I mean, I may continue to hold my views, but I will try to present them in a less confrontational manner. Is that acceptable?
ner says:
That works, but I still am up in the air with whether or not I will continue to work with you on this project. I will let you know. You are definnitely welcome to my scripts which are in a directory off of /staff/djsystem and I'll be willing to offer advice, but whether or not I can help you I do not know at this point.
ner says:
Give me a while to calm down and think about what I want to do and I'll send my decision to you in due time.
Jeff and UltraHost.US provides customer care extraordinaire! says:
Ok, I'll accept your decision in this matter. Again, let me emphasize that we all, not just myself, appreciate any effort that is made towards making ACBRI function more smoothly. Your contributions are no exception. If you decide to assist us your help will certainly be appreciated.
ner says:
I understand that. Thanks for your time and you will hear from me, and I"ll be reading this thread you told me about, have been having problems with my email
Jeff and UltraHost.US provides customer care extraordinaire! says:
Sorry about your email problems. Hope you get them sorted. I'll chat with you later.Very nice way to end that conversation. I'll not paste anymore as its actually becoming more civilized at the moment, but I don't like to be treated by someone who acts as an authoritarian and patronises me. I'm a volunteer, he's a volunteer, and you've got to hope you can work for someone whose nice to you rather than a patronising person. I sure don't want to work for someone whose condescending, would you?

Added conversations later. I find it interestng that he provides customer care extroadinaire. I hope this conversation has shown him that he's got to have better people skills if he's going to work with people. This would be so much easier if I had no people skills and no feelings like many computer scientists seem to not have.

More later
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